Why Grunts Hate POGs

By: Peter Sessum

A put together M249 mount. How it should have been in the first place.

So there I was, in Afghanistan, no shit. I was in Khost Province on FOB Salerno and about to go on a mission. There was a part missing from my machine gun mount so I went into the supply room to see if they had what I needed. The week before the supply sergeant had told me that the extra gear in the box was not accountable so I could grab what I wanted anytime. That is why I didn’t think it would be a big deal.

So I was surprised when the supply sergeant kicked me out of the supply hut. He said that they were doing their morning PT and so I had to leave. Despite the fact that I was on the far said of the hut and not anywhere near them, I couldn’t be in the same building while they did pushups. Even though I was going on a mission in less than 10 minutes and the mount would help me be more combat effective, the guy who never left the wire kicked me out not because it made tactical sense, but because he can. And that is why grunts hate POGs.

The term grunt used to refer to just Infantry and later to combat arms soldiers in the Army. A POG (Person Other than Grunt) is everyone else. With the Global War on Terror (GWOT) there were no more front lines. With soldiers of all jobs in the Army coming in contact with the enemy it really became about the grunt v. POG mentality.

It all starts in basic training. Drill sergeants tell new recruits that THEIR job is the most important job in the Army. Cooks are told that without them, no one would eat. Without finance, no one would get paid. In the end, it gives the POGs an attitude and they act like the Army revolves around them.

Infantry are taught the same thing. I was told that the Infantry makes up 10 percent of the Army and the other 90 percent support the war fighters. We took pride in the idea of what we do and that everyone else supports us. But that doesn’t mean that they are less, just another part of the team.

The problem is, most POGs don’t see it that way. They look down on “dumb grunts” that don’t bring anything to the table. A finance soldier will think that grunts need him to get paid, but the grunt doesn’t do anything for finance. Cooks feed grunts, but the existence of grunts doesn’t enrich the cook’s life.

If a soldier isn’t getting paid and goes to the finance people, they will act like they are doing the soldier a favor for fixing the problem even though that is exactly what they are paid to do. Because of a screw up at the Personnel Action Center (PAC) the Army took 20 days of leave from me. I spent three days running all over post trying to get all the right paperwork together to get it taken care of. Something a PAC person could have done in about 30 minutes.

If you give PAC attitude, nothing will ever get done. The smart grunt makes friends with as many POGs as possible in the unit. It is the only way to get things done. Otherwise you have to use other tactics. I once entered a PAC office at 10:45 and they were already closing for lunch. Sergeant Goldman was the last one and he was turning out the lights when I walked in. In the Army, lunch doesn’t start until 11:30 but this is what POGs do. Instead of leaving, I sat down in the dark. He reminded me that they were going to lunch and I said, “I know. This way I am first in line when you get back.”

He studied me for a minute and thought I might be crazy enough to do it. He decided to help me and was still out the door before 10:50. It is pathetic that I had to go to extremes just to get him to do his job. When I was trying to clear that unit Goldman would walk to the far corner of the room whenever he would see me. “I can’t fuck with you Sessum” he would say. He would stay there until I left.

Any questions?

One way you can tell if someone is a POG is if they have “Sergeant’s Time.” The Army instituted Sergeants Time Thursday to give the soldiers a day for training. Grunts train every day. Or as an old platoon sergeant said, “We are Infantry, everyday is sergeant’s time.”

It can be difficult to transition into civilian life for grunts. Not because they are used to combat but because they have little time for POGs. It is difficult to take attitude from a person who isn’t even doing their job right. The reason is that grunts have to do their job to the best of their ability 100 percent of the time or something really bad is going to happen. If a POG doesn’t do his job, no lives are at risk so the POG doesn’t care.

The grunt mentality also exists in the civilian world. Anyone who has a job where people will die if they do not do it right will know where a grunt is coming from. A firefighter can’t refuse to answer a call because it is lunchtime. An EMT can’t say that she will only use one bandage on a gunshot victim because she doesn’t want to have to restock the entire vehicle.

The best thing a POG can do, and I have seen it happen, is to act like one of the team and do the best job possible. If the grunt’s finances are in order, that is one less thing to think about and he can focus on the task at hand. Or just do your job and you will earn the respect of those that do the tough jobs.

Grunts should treat all POGs that do their job with respect. A soldier is not less because he is in an easier job. There is nothing wrong with having an air conditioned office in a combat zone rather than running missions all day, you just can’t look down on us for it.

UPDATE: Due to incredibly high traffic on this post a follow up piece entitled POG is a Mentality not an MOS was written in May 2014.

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123 Responses to Why Grunts Hate POGs

  1. John Pike says:

    I don’t hate POG’s for the most part. M.P.’s however are a bunch of A$$ holes After 8 months in the jungle of Vietnam I went back for a R&R no sooner did I get in the back two mp’s pull up in their jeep spit shined from head to toe. I haven’t had even a cold shower in weeks and this guy yells at me :hey troop what the hell you doing trying to kill someone get that weapon unloaded. I just spent 8 months sleeping eating and relieving my body of waste with this weapon in my hand . It was my Teddy Bear at night. And this REMF says something to me like that. This isn’t basic training this is real. I told him as best I could with out causing me to miss my R&R that my name isn’t troop and that I am a Sgt. and the olny poeple that this rifel kills is the ones I want it to. I think the look i must of had on my face sent a message that he was not addressing this problem in the right way. I pulled the clip out of the weapon and as soon as they were out of range back it went. Not as a sign of defiance but for my own sense of security.
    Now to the real a$$holes of the army cooks With less then 24 hours in the military I was on KP still in my own cloths. I report to the mess hall and I am assigned to be the “outside man” I am told that the trash cans outside were to be put by the exit so the troops could dump the left overs off in the cans,, When those are full move them and replace them with empty cans keep the out side clean of all trash. After two meals this guy comes out and tells me that the “edible garbage” ( kind of a contradiction in terms if you ask this city boy) has paper in with it and that I had to go through the 6cans of garbage and get all the paper out of it. That is when I decided that if it takes me the rest of my life I will get even with some army cook down the road. If you didn’t know edible garbage is feed to farmers hogs. To date I have fucked over 7 cooks and waiting to meet #8.

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    • LC says:

      Are you seriously comparing MPs of today to those of over 40 years ago? you have a lot to learn about today’s military.

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      • Alex says:

        I think he is just sharing a good story! And the MP’s today pull the same $hit! I have been pulled over by war pigs on base after 12-15 hour patrols, just so they could search our truck and make us bake in the sun for another 2 hours! The point is, the grunts just want a hot meal, shower, and a bed.. Leave them alone and go patrol the PX and chow hall!!!

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      • Will says:

        MP’s in KAF wrote speeding tickets to us for spinning up for dust 1. One of our NCO’s was maced for not wearing eyepro. Not to mention having them drive around in gators when rocket alarm sounds yelling “get to a bunker there is movement outside the wire!” no shit Sherlock, its the farmers, they live there…..

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      • Cpl.Gus says:

        MPs are dicks, regardless of the year.
        Most POGs are worthless shit birds, but the ones who do their jobs, and can make shit happen are the ones to befriend. I had friends in the mess, supply, PSC, and the armory.
        My guys never failed an inspection, never missed chow, never lost leave, and never failed a weapon turn in.
        All of which are harder than hell for a rifle platoon.

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      • Drew says:

        ya, the mps nowadays are way worse, they joined the army to fuck over other soldiers

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        • TBAGYA says:

          The reason you all get it from the MP’s is because you are all idiots…we do it mostly “just because” just like you all drink and drive “just because” then want to take a swing at us “just because”…..if you are weaving side to side and driving like an ass….get ready to get “boosted” & “searched” & have your chain of command come and get your ass….

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    • drew says:

      The hate is strong with this one

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    • Nate says:

      I hate POGs when they sit on a FOB and then come home and act like they did shit. Civis look at “Soldiers” all the same, and POGs eat it up. If your a POG get over it, im talking Non-Combat MOS. I get shit happens, i dont talk shit about no one, i cant stand ppl who let ppl think they are hot shit. My bro in laws a POG has done two tours (11 months total) admits to me he hasnt seen nothin, yet lets everyone fantasize about his ‘conquests’ how hes SF, only thing is, to civi, SF is SF, not understanding being SF doesnt make you green beret. You want your family to think ur cool, thats fine, but dont bitch that ur a bitch.

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    • Brad says:

      Sounds like your Hate stems from improper PCC’s and PCI procedures, as far as making POGS feel superior: I’m sorry you feel that way, but in the end it reads like you put yourself on a soap box of superiority, those “POGS” were just doing whats important to their MOS. Such as: I’m a heavy equipment operator, and a Recruiter. I’ll tell anyone, stay the fuck away from my equipment when its running (safety), and don’t come into my office all super hooah bashing MOS’s to young adults wanting to join. This is nothing more than butt hurt infantry rhetoric.

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  2. Josh says:

    This article is a joke… POG’s look “down on dumb grunts” because you guys act like you’re entitled things just because you’re Infantry…

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    • Adam Bennett says:

      We are entitled bitch, without the 11 series or 18 series there is no military. If you don’t have the balls, then don’t complain when you feel like a Bitch.

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      • Gerard Horejsi says:

        Ive never really had much to say on this but you seem very lost without pogs you would be nothing you would go hungry you wouldn’t have gear you wouldn’t have a weapon or ammo your trucks wouldn’t run and you would be naked. Now on the other hand I mean this in the nicest way without grunts we would go back and do two more weeks of training and use are trigger fingers a little more. I’m in an FSC and all of my deployments I was attached to a line company and I went everywhere with them and trained with them so for someone to say what you just said makes me feel a little said that you think you are better then us and some of are mos’s work long hours and go out to bring you back when blown up or killed but whatever you think

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        • T B says:

          Mother Fucker, you god-damn broke-dick shit-bag. You are exactly the type of pansy ass non-com POG ass piece of shit this article is pointing out. Go cry into your cock shaped pillow you fucking bitch. Grunts adapt to survive mother fucker and I can guarangoddamntee you we would make due with whatever the fuck we could beg, borrow, or take from pussies like you and live pretty god damn well in the deepest of shit with a grin on our face. Fuck you.

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        • Joe Zikspak says:

          You stupid fucking cockwad. We would just fucking take what we want and enslave little pussies like you to do what we wanted. How do you think the ancient armies worked? They took whatever they needed. So shut the fuck up and do your job. Maybe we accidentally let some jihadis through to rape and pillage you REMF diarrhea puddles.

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      • 11b says:

        God damn right we are entitled I can fucking hunt to feed myself I fix. My own fucking cars and I can get my own fucking gear let’s see your ass stand your ground when your platoon is getting over run and not cry like a little birch talk is tough man it’s a whole different story when you actually hear the bullets inches from your head and seeing guys get hit next to you shaking it off until the fight is over. You wouldnt understand you fucking POGS. I don’t need your ass you lazy pieces of shit. I only know your a lazy piece of shit cause your bitching on here. You wouldn’t be mad unless you were one of the POGS that does t do their fucking jobs

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        • Teufel Hunden says:

          Today I learned a new word…POG.. I had never heard it in my fourteen plus years of service but understand that IF I had known it then I would have used it often. While I respect all marines as best as possible I have never liked non-grunts. I do respect the very rare POG that actually does his/her job to the absolute best of their ability and takes pride enough to do so. All other POGS see below. I served with 1/4, 3/1, and 1/9 under heavy weapons (0351). We were once asked to leave an AF chow hall by a high ranking female “military band member” because we were still in “field attire” and hadn’t had a shower or a chance to remove our facial camo. We had just finished jumping off off non-beached LST’s and taking a beach (training). The chow hall was going to close and we were hungry. The absolutely refused to feed us. The MP’s were called that day when we decided to “feed ourselves”. We ate our food over their unconsious bodies (MP’s & cooks) in the chow hall. The base general banned us from eating on base after that. The cooks had to bring us our meals to the barracks. We didn’t trust them so we made sure that we got paid for eating out on town and went and got our own damn food.

          Motor T ? Never saw them after they dropped us off in country. There just big targets full of under trained personnel. I do remember them picking us up once when we were still in MOP level 3 and they were drinking Evian water, wearing pressed cammies, cologne, and not suited up. You were injured by an IED ? How ? You actually drove on a fucking road ? Grunts don’t walk down trails for a reason dumbass. Get out of your armored vehicle and check the road..oh wait that is what grunts do..we wouldn’t want your fragile ass out from behind the armor….You might actually have to carry or use that damn weapon…

          Finance ? I don’t do it for the money…living to spend it was a bonus you fucks. Now fix it !!!

          Supply ? Oh you mean that guy that I turned some of my shit in too after a 27 mile force march (MACREST) in 108 degree temps wearing a 140LB pack? He complained that it wasn’t a training day because it was too hot (base said 104 max) to work and was at home when they called him. My personal rant is when I see some lipstick queen say that she’s with 1/9…”I’m in support of 1/9″….In other words your claim to fame was to be “in support” of a grunt….wow so was the other 90% of our country at one point…your point ? You didn’t make the gear…soooo somebody else is in support of your support of a grunt ? Get a fucking life !

          My own nephew joined the corps as a POG and what is his take ? He said to me “The marine corps does not define who I am…it’s just a job”…I wanted to carve his pussy heart out with a sharp canteen cup but rather simply relayed my disgust for him and made him walk away. I scored very high on my ASVAB (119 and 121 GT scores) and chose the grunts with no regret. For all who have chewed on dirt, spit blood, and embraced “The Suck” I thank you brothers for your service. For all of the support personnel….thank you for bringing me my shit so that your pussy asses didn’t have to fight.

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      • Nate says:

        Agree!

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      • Brad says:

        Enjoy your Mall Cop career

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    • Ryan says:

      The infantry is th backbone of th military

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  3. psessum says:

    Josh, did you read it all the way through or just take offense to the headline? If I had to say anything, I would say reread the last paragraph. “A soldier is not less becasue he is in an easier job.” I even said that grunts should respect all POGs that do their jobs.

    The point of this website is to share the veteran experience and to help some people understand the veteran perspective. Some have asked why grunts don’t like POGs, this was an answer. Note I said “an” answer and not “the” answer. This is based on personal experiences. Just like your perspective might be based on your personal expereinces. Instead of calling it a joke, why not offer to give a rebuttal? Why not write your own perspective? Or maybe, before you start name calling, read the whole thing and try and see what the message should be. One team, one fight.

    Saying that POGs have a reason to look down on grunts doesn’t solve the problem, it only continues the cycle. I offered a solution, you just threw an insult.

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    • William says:

      I’ll be honest here I don’t care about any other job than my own but I do agree that most of the POGS that I’ve ever met or seen or heard and had to deal with give the few good POGS a bad name. Mainly because I’ve had to do their jobs for them in order to get my shit squard away. But honestly I don’t think we need cooks or MPs and lots of other jobs that don’t mess with weapons of war or weapons at all. Finance I believe can be better if only each person wore held accountable for fucking up in any way. But all physical and simple jobs (cooking) can be done by the Infantry in general. I mean it’s not like we don’t already do it anyway. There’s a reason why Infantryman are known as the perfessionals of all jobs (as I’ve grown up hearing and witnessed). Other than that the term POG is only considered bad because you got people that use it as an insult and some POGS that don’t even know the definition. Then you got the POGS that complain because they hurt or work too hard or work to long whenever in reality they’ve never trained in the field for more than two weeks or have never executed missions back to back for 78 hours straight with out food or sleep or rest of any not even to take a shit or piss. Last thing. I’ve POGS that don’t even know what “Prickely Heat” is because they’ve never Challanged themselves ever wether by their own will or against it. I am an Infantryman and when the “SUCK” is true and I see the wizard I embrace it and I carry on and do my job as a man of God and as a Infantryman.

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      • Bill S. says:

        Many years ago in the 70s, while some went to Vietnam I went to Germany. So learning fast then while doing duty with ARSOF teams in the 80s, Bad Toelz, I learned the hard lesson, that there were jobs I didn’t and couldn’t want do in the Army. And some I love doing.

        Jumping out of a perfectly good plane, going into combat and driving a Abrams tank were some that just seemed to me redundant. Yes I was one of them. Then later as a PSYOPS (Psychology Operations) soldier in Berlin, I found that all my talents in photography, advertising and printing, could be used towards that MOS.

        That was of course before the wall had fallen and Germany became one State. It was also many years before SGT Peter Sessum or for that fact most of the soldiers that are now in the Army and think its humourous to call a Combat Support Soldier a “POG!”

        About three weeks ago some Specialist fresh out of AIT called me a “POG” on a military blog? At first I was somewhat confused? Its one term I ‘ve never heard before, and honestly I had no idea what a POG was. I had an inclination it was jokingly meant negative. I was upset at the arrogance of someone who was an 11B10 never been in the shit, and acting like he has seen it all, but never been deployed or for that fact didn’t even have a Unit patch on his uniform? And yet, there I was, being called a POG by some snot nosed kid.

        I had just been called a dirty name. After 35+ years in the Army a Veteran of the cold war, of Desert Storm, Iraq war, and many deployments there I was striped of all that to one word….?
        .I’ve always been proud of my three MOS’s and 37 years I’ve served in the Army, and even though I’m a Disabled Veteran. Yet there it was. POG? Well screw you kid… I felt like Clint Eastwood when he got locked up with some young punk in jail in that movie Heartbreak Ridge?
        Trust me I have been labeled many things since I have left the military. But there was and hopefully still is an “Espirt de Corps or a pride,” of each MOS or Military Occupational Specialty or (as my West Point son who graduated in 2011, says Dad Officers call it a Branch).
        So, I take exception to the fact that one refers to claims POG is the answer to all? Bullshit. If that is seriously todays reflecting todays Army personnel calling every one else that is not a “Grunt, a POG,” well we had all better get ready for the name calling. In 1975 when the Army hit an all time low and all the Combat experienced soldiers left, with many of the officer ranks slashed, the went from a force of 550,000 to 230000. And Yes there were a lot of Combat Support troops out there.
        I’ve always been damn proud I’m not in that class. I mean I know they have it hard. But think about it… its not a job prerequisite. Its not like you can move on after or when a soldier decides to leave the military; or after you retire for what ever reason and take those skills acquired with you to a civilian job? Yes, …is true, that grunts have to do their job to the best of their ability 100 percent of the time or something really bad is going to happen. But, If a POG doesn’t do his job, no lives are at risk so the POG doesn’t care.” But that’s not exactly true not is it?

        “Oh Contraire, Monsignor Sessum.” Each NCO/IC should care what and what they deliver no matter what MOS they do. It might not cost or influence lives of others but if we do it in a “One Cheekier mannerisms,” we are just a shadow of a past Army’s not caring of the quality and unit cohesiveness we should be putting out.

        Until the Army stops combat operations you won’t see it. You might start to feel it now, and if you knew how the Army underwent the vast chops in the 70’s of those that came back from Vietnam and those during that operation felt that support troops just didn’t get the exposure to combat as the ones picked for non-combative rolls., but that was also because the Army was an all male Army. Not until Desert Storm did things start to change and in Iraq the front was everywhere. New battlelines were drawn, because combat was not so much in front but in and around you. IEDs and VBIEDs were taking lives of those around the combat troops. Now that the Army is moving into a peace time military, you will see even more of this term, “.POG,” can mean – Person Other than Grunt? or Psychological Operations Group ?” What ever happened to the term, “Pretentious, Original – GI was “Government Issue…” or Combat Support, call it what you want… but its One Army, One Fight, One Force!!

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        • Godwin says:

          Wow, you sure used a whole lot of unnecessary words. You could have just said “I’m a boot who doesn’t have a CIB”, and that would’ve been the end of it.

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  4. Evan says:

    I am currently working to join the army and have been learning about “POG” and the schism between grunts and pogs. I have to say this was very well written in my opinion. Honestly, it has put my mind at ease a little bit. I would most likely would become a POG. I’d like to add something that I learned myself. There’s always going to be somebody better then you at something and somebody worse then you at something, so it’s best to be humble and treat everyone with respect. I too hate when people don’t do their jobs and always go the extra mile myself. So I appreciate the good read, it has been very informative.

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  5. Arthur Battaglia says:

    I was in 2/3 Marines. I was an 0311 (infantry). I wouldn’t call it hate. More like, lood down on. Let me give you a scernio that happens often. Say you’re at a bar and there are other men in the military sitting around having a beer. You join in their little chat. You can hold your head high knowing that you were in the infantry. Not some MP, Supply, Clerk, Motor T, Heavy Crain Operator etc… Let me give you another example, when you are older and have kids, say a son. And your son asks you what you did in the military. Go ahead and tell him you were a “combat cook” or supply guru. That gets a lot of respect. Anyway, I don’t have to explain it to POGs, they know exactly how they feel when any one of these situations happen to them. They can lie to themselves and try to justify their military career all they want. It doesn’t change a thing. They got no respect in or out of the military. Now, watch how many POGs get on here and try to spin you a line of BS about how important their job was. I guess if being a cook, clerk or supply POG was so rewarding then they would have made a movie about it. Have they? Hopefully it is a learning tool for guys about to go into the military.

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    • Adam Bennett says:

      Right on man

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    • Will says:

      That’s the shitty thing though. Most civilians don’t know the difference between a POG and a grunt. they see the uniform, they automatically think “hero”. They see a fat body, they think…….”wtf, he fights the wars??”

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    • Doc says:

      They make movies about gay cowboys too…

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    • Skip says:

      Wow, I find that comment really hilarious because after 15 years of calling in AC130 air strikes, artillery, motars, and CAS and HiMars rockets as a POG with Line companies, artillery Liasion sections, LAR, Anglico, and Reconnaissance Battalions….. I have no issue holding my head high because the majority of the fuckin idiots who even care about “grunts” and “pogs” or even make an arguement, haven’t bleed, sweat or breathed anywhere I have in HOA, Libieria, Afghanistan, or Iraq. But I’ll be sure to continue lying to myself about how Infantry is better, when in the throws of combat in every shithole corner of the globe, that radio, whether being used to call your buddies or support, makes me inferior. Infantry Marines are exactly like 18inch flaccid penises. They have all the potential in the world….. But unless you proven, that’s all it will ever be… Potential. Awwww, and btw, I spent some time in “Americas Battalion” while the dirty 3rd was getting tag teamed by Iraq and afghan. Same thing I tell every hard up infantryman on Friday when I hear the word POG. ” if you’ve never seen combat, being an infantryman just makes you qualified for punishment…. Here’s a ladder, climb these ribbons”.Lmao

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  6. Kristina says:

    Psessum thank you for your prospective, I agree there should b respect on both side pogs n grunts, there are some pog jobs that are cush n relaxed but there are some that are gruesome and taxing, all soldiers are supposed technically “infantryman” but true bonified infantry do have tough bull sh*t to deal with, I agree that none should feel entitled,looking down on a grunt because they are a grunt is just dumb, I knew several who had a high enough gt score to be any thing but chose infantry. Most soldiers now a days have a good chance of. Combat so respect your fellow brother should be top priority.. Just my opinion, … Yes I served, and being a female obviously im a log, 63 w.

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    • Timothy T. Daly says:

      Kristina, you made some very good points and well thought out insights in your comment. I was drafted in March 1968, 11B (I couldn’t get a college deferment because I had to work a full time job as well as a 3/4 time second job to support my siblings (long story). Anyway, my Army GT score was 137 (equivalent to WAIT +/- 2.5 points/95% confidence level. Also my AFQT score was 99-1. Both qualified me for Mensa. I also knew quite a few college grads who were drafted and in the field. I spent 5.5 months as a patient in WRAH after the second time I was wounded w/17 wounds after week-long stays in an Army hospital in Tokyo, then onto an AF hospital in Denver prior ending up in WRAH, After that I was sent to Ft. Knox, KY to basically do nothing because Nixon was in office and a medical discharge was prima facie evidence that the wounded soldier should get VA Comp. While at Ft. Knox our company clerk had completed his 3-year enlistment and the company commander had trouble getting replacing for him. I was then asked if I would fill in until a replacement came (they found out that I could type) and I had access to everyone in the company’s records, including test scores on a rolex. Of course this was before the Privacy Act, HIPPA and other like protections for personal privacy came about. I found that most of the GI’s there, all grunts, typically had GT scores in the 120’s and high one teens, others had GT scores in the 130’s, almost all draftees. The draft dodgers, however, spread lies and fish stories about our being baby killers, high on drugs (which of course mad it easier to kill babies and older civilians), and of course we were characterized as being dumb. It is pretty obvious to me that the cowards dodged the draft by going to the family doc and getting a script for Valium with a Dr. note (as ‘In my opinion, because of his nervous condition and drug treatment is not fit for military service.’); others fled to Canada or feigned bogus physical problems supporter by these doctor’s who played god. While the horrible tragedy and war crime in My Lai did happen, I believe that there were only c. 20 soldiers involved in the slaughter, who should have been lined up and put before a firing squad. By the time the Tet Offensive in Feb. ’68, there were virtually no effective VC troops and the NVA, 250K of them were sent South against approximately 40K 11B’s. The troops in the Mekong Delta (aka the Rice Bowl) were sent to bore themselves to death and their only job was to watch the nearby port along the South China Sea, so because of all the ships coming in and out they had ready access to big time drugs and alcohol and were totally F’d up. The NVA couldn’t have cared less about IV because their main and ultimate prize was taking Saigon. Thus the draft dodgers and there supporters, aids and abetters focused on that for there arguments, thus giving the other 99,99999999% of us 11B’s a black eye. I remember coming home, returning to work and avoided the subject of my being infantry in RVN or in general. Of course the draft dodger’s purpose was to make them look good and right for not going, and for those feeling guilty about – in each and every case, causing someone else to go in their place. Nuf said…

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  7. stacie says:

    I honestly don’t understand the hostility between the groups. Machanics in war zones face the same risks as other soliders. Yes, infantry has the riskier job. I don’t understand why one is against the other. When you took the asvab most picked their fields looking down upon someone because of their jobs I’d pure bullshit. The marine corps is small enough as it is and they are trying to make ir smaller, yall are supposed to be brothers. There’s very few marines causing hostility within is pointless. I personally cannot stand the military men with the egotistical persona that because they wear a uniform and arent civilians everyone owes them and can kiss their ass despite how disrespectful and rude they are you to. I respect those who give me something to respect.

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    • stacie says:

      Sorry about the typos it’s kind of late lol

      Like

    • Adam Bennett says:

      The infantry is the only MOS who’s job is close with and engage the enemy until it’s done. Other people get to collect their wounded and “Charlie mike” back inside the wire.

      Like

    • Curt says:

      You don’t understand because you can’t. You have never served in the infantry or armor. Thats ok. I read the first sentence and thats all I needed.

      Like

  8. Joe says:

    i’M A POG but I don’t look down on grunts. I never have. I respect what they do and most grunts I met in the combat zone were alright. However I think that your description of POGS is kinda stereotypical when it makes all pogs look like pencil pushers. I was a truck driver. In my MOS we were outside the wire all the time transporting anything you could think of including grunt equipment. Sure we don’t have it has tough as the grunts but we don’t exactly sit in a a/c tent all day doing paper work.

    Like

    • psessum says:

      I do not disagree with you. What I ask to be taken into account is that this is brushing with broad strokes. The article supports the title and isn’t a full breakdown of all non-Infantry jobs. Of course, this would be a good opportunity to submit to DTC from your own perspective. Anyone can contribute and different perspectives are a good thing.

      Like

  9. I’m going to kick things up a notch because this is an area I’ve given considerable reflection. I propose a truce and here is my understanding. Once upon a time infantry were dubbed “grunts” due to the laborious nature of the work. Undoubtedly, ASVAB scores played a roll, but without the stats from past and modern military, it’s beside the point in this post.

    I think I would be pissed too if someone called me a “dumb grunt” all the time, I think I would search for a way to counter balance that and preserve my pride (short of anything that’s cause for court martial). So the justifications can be argued from the macro to the micro level of why some branches, posts, jobs are harder than others or some people handle the circumstances differently. But comparing these different areas is like pitting apples against oranges against bananas against…you get the idea.

    I guess my question is this; short of what the VA uses to determine which priority group to place you in or how best to screen you for PTSD/TBI, what does it matter? I don’t mean in the existential sense that a veteran shouldn’t care about what they did, just that it’s being argued within the veteran community when it’s no longer applicable to our needs as a group.

    It never should have been allowed to perpetuate in the military, but we stand a chance of breaking the cycle for those returning. The VA categorizes my husband and I as combat veterans because we deployed overseas aboard a carrier to a combat theater. That tells me that modern warfare has changed, and we too need to adapt when even the VA is surpassing us in compassion for ourselves and each other.

    Like

  10. jason says:

    This shit never ends cause ppl can’t except other ppl are better than them. I just read from some stupid c bag stacie that a mechanics job is just as dangerous as a inf in combat…woooowwwww. Why don’t u look up how many mechanics have died then grunts in yhe war oon terrror moron. How about when I was in iraq and would come off of patrol back in the wire to the safe motorpool were the mechanics live. Then I have to replace my own blown out tires bc the mechanics are soooooo busy fixing fucked up grunt humvees…not mechanics out killing bin laden. U pogs and cicvilians I live amongst now are a vile desgusting thankless bunch

    Like

    • steve says:

      Wow jason. Thats the mentality. U must have a hard life now. Not everyone goes in wanting to be a pog. When your promised a certain role ie infantry and go in open contract a young guy hoping that your mistakes in life havent haunted or delayed you going into the military. Whats funny is I have met grunts with no combat experience while some mt/mp guys who went to afghan or iraq held a 240 or 50 cal or mk 19 and used it even with all the idfs, saf, ieds in other parts. Dont let ptsd destroy ur life. And if some grunt ever did think he was that tough, I know I have knocked at at least one big bad ass grunt. We are only human. Cool down on the grunt shit because in real life when its all over, civilians dont care its thanks for your service now go back to work.

      Like

    • Adam Bennett says:

      Right on man right on! That’s exactly right and I will sleep better after reading it man. Go out on a five day patrol and come.in and fix your own shit cause the.mechanics went.to.chow, or don’t do that. If.you haven’t been a grunt, your option is moot. Lol thanks for that example man, you hit the nail on the head

      Like

  11. Bob L., Oklahoma City says:

    I just stumbled into this web area while doing searches on something entirely unrelated. However, having read a lot of this thread, I have to say that overall it has more good sense, respect for others’ points of views and general reasonableness in it than virtually any other web thread I’ve read in a long time. (I’m a civilian, 71 years old, who was probably an ultimate POG in my youth, but I still know solid stuff from hot air, and this is solid.)

    Like

  12. Mike says:

    I was a 15R (Apache helo mech) fresh out of AIT when I first deployed to Iraq in 2003. I had to do humanitarian convoys into the city. We would be swarmed by kids, while their parents hanging out the window closely watching us. If rolling into these ghettos and nomadic mud brick areas made me nervous, I can imagine the guys who are always out there.

    The aviation field is a small community in the Army, so I would imagine the social dynamic is pretty different than most. We must see each other equally to support the grunts on the ground.

    Our aircrews had to provide cover for ground units and convoys, and most grunts were thankful for it. The Apache is a piece of crap sometimes and needs some coaxing to get it air worthy so the qrf team could help in a pinch. Us mechanics jumped hurdles to keep them birds in the air.

    We experience loss too, just like my two pilots who were shot down during my second deployment in 2006. We live together, work together, train together and rely on each other. We may be pogs, but we lose brothers too.

    Like

    • Mike says:

      Mad respect. I was an 11b in Ramadi An Bar Iraq with the101st Airborne from 05-06. Anybody around that time knew An Bar was popping. We fought hard, and we came back with a more definitive line of respect. Combat arms is a blurring field but some things that I will take a hard line on. I am not a dumb grunt but it was my dream to be an infantryman. I thought that was the only way to honorably serve your country and if I lived through it, than I could tell my children and grandchildren that I walked confidently with 50 of the most badass dudes in the AO towards a bad firefight (and we did plenty). I’m proud of my service, I’m proud of those guys I fought and lived with, I’m proud of the combat medic who took care of us in the worst of situations, I’m proud of the dedication of our cooks and engineering companies for working hard under constant mortar bombardment and RPG attacks on a FOB just a little bigger than two football fields to feed us miserable bastards, I have mad respect for the medevac teams, the blackhawk female helicopter pilots that took our platoon to our insertion points (and the males) and the MP’s that watch the front gates to our FOB (even if stateside they like to pull us over).

      That being said, some of those guys feel we’re dumb grunts. Hell, I served with PLENTY of dudes with college degrees, three from Harvard. Yeah, we had some truly dumb people but you also have to remember those that were fighting in the infantry…mainly WANTED to be there.

      So thank you to all you dirty bastards that made sure our broke-back asses had ACOGs or weaposn that worked, or fed us chow, or evac’d our buddies, or took care of our money when we didnt have the chance to monitor. But remember, we are a special breed. We are the tip of the spear and those of us who voluntarily signed that contract with 11b have that hard-headed mentality that we are in fact, better than most. Like some of the dudes on here said though, I’ve learned over the years it doesnt really matter. No civvy gives a rat shit what you did. But my kids will. That’s enough for me 🙂

      Like

      • Mark says:

        Right on man. This is the first I’m hearing of the POG-grunt divide and frankly I’m horrified. I’m planning on joining up as a programmer once I have my degree and I’ve got nothing but respect for the front line troops- the thought that they’ll look down on me as a “pencil pusher” is pretty depressing, not that it will stop me.

        It’s all the same army, guys. Without the mechanics, programmers, accountants and other professionals there wouldn’t be any gear or food. Without the grunts there wouldn’t be an army. Why the hell can’t you all see that?

        Like

  13. Krehator says:

    Some people just cannot get over themselves….PERIOD. That is why this little battle continues. Pride can be a good thing but it can also be a cancer in an organization. I’ve worked in combat arms and support MOS’s over 20 years of service, and I know for a fact a lot of it is just ego and ignorance. You got some guys that go through their career humbly doing their job, and not expecting any special treatment. Then you have those who like to hang out in bars and tell fake war stories to girls, and expect everyone to treat them like Rambo. Only the guilty parties need be offended, and deserve to be.

    If you cannot get over yourself, the military probably isn’t the right job for you. It’s a team oriented job. One team, one fight. No room for egos and individuals. Go back home and spend your life reliving stories like some has-been high school quarterback. The rest of us will drive on without you.

    Out

    Like

  14. Infantry=Greek God All else=Sheep

    Like

  15. Kenneth says:

    I think this whole grunt vs pog mentality is nothing but bullshit on BOTH ends. Here is why. When you go through basic training, EVERYONE is trained as an infantryman irregardless of whether it is your primary mos or not. I served in the Marines as an 5711 (NBCD specialist) and the last two years of my contract I was with an infantry battalion at fucked-up 29 Palms. I still had to go to the field, road march and learn all the same weapons those guys did, PT the same way and do all the same other training in addition to sometimes having to train 200 or 300 Marines a day multiple times a week in the gas chamber or other classes. Several years later, I joined the Army to help my family and guess what, the same exact scenario except this time I was in a combat arms mos(Artillery) and we still trained with the infantry battalions. Once again, I went to the field, did the road marches, learned the weapons and tactics, went to Iraq and Afghanistan, did ALL the types of base security and guard duty and went outside the wire many times in both countries. I have heard the arguments from both sides. Grunts think POGs are weak and get off easy and cannot handle the way of the infantry. The POGs think grunts are mostly the fucked-up guys who have low GT scores, were in trouble with the law or just have a really bad attitude or mentality and could not qualify for anything else. In short: dumbfucks who amount to nothing. The truth is I have seen fuckups in many different moss’ in the enlisted, nco and officer ranks. If you people cannot see both viewpoints, then you are blind to the truth hidden in the center. There is not one mos that makes the military run as a whole like a well-oiled machine. It is ALL of them. Here is my final viewpoint. If someone was infantry and then decided to switch to another mos for career advancement or to better their chances for a good civilian career, what does that make them?

    Like

    • Cautious says:

      EXACTFuckingLY! Remember, we all went through the same training before we were sent out to learn and perform our specialty. There is a purpose for that. Sometimes the enemy gets past the grunt lines and comes into where the POG’s stay. They stay and fight. They don’t run. A grunt may talk differently because they use the same lingo everyday. But they don’t shoot differently since we were all trained in the same weaponry and we were al trained (equally trained) to survive and kill the enemy. Some guys watch too many movies. I recall a recent movie that took place in TWOT. An infantry company was bogged down and needed re-supplying. An entire company of Supply POG’s were sent to bail them out. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE SUPPLY MEN WRE KILLED! You may say, well that just happens in the movies. Sorry, not so. Especially now that these war movies are more than likely based on true occurrences. Check the rolls of the CMOH recipients. Many of them were NON-INFANTRYMEN!

      Like

  16. Bill says:

    Wow, a lot going on here. Great article, but in your broadstroke attempt you missed a defining factor that clears some of this up. POGs are not grunts, but not all POGs are REMFs! POGs play a vital role with their jobs, but the POG ass REMFS that hassle grunts just because or fail to support grunts are a huge source of contention. A grunt humps his ass off, day in and day out, misses chow, eats crap chow, sleeps in the worst conditions and has his life on the line as his one and only job, then a POG that is inconvenienced or a supply sgt that doesnt want to supply anything because he did inventory and his ducks are all in a row, how is that not supposed to create issues? Met lots of awesome POGs, male and female, but like somebody used the grossly incorrect argument about ASVAB scores and grunts, the general perception is POGs are all REMFs. And grunt is a title that is earned and proudly worn, so i hope people do not think grunts are tired of being called grunts. ASVAB scores? Lmao somebody needs to do some research. Look at cooks and gas pumpers, and yes PAC clerks, 11 and 18 series is higher than most people think. Being grunt is about heart, drive and spirit, NOT i was too dumb to do anything else in the military. There are less than educated people in all parts of the military. And combat medics are NOT pogs! They are GRUNTS with bandaids!! My medic could rock any weapons system we had, build line charges from C4 to breach and graduated sniper school! Dont F with Doc.

    Like

  17. Will says:

    Respect for the combat medics. Everyone loves the plt doc. and FO! don’t forget the beloved FO!

    Like

  18. reo says:

    Pogs, grunts… does not matter to me. I need the so called “pogs,” as much as they need the grunts. The matter of the fact is that we all are pulling our military duty to protect the sons and daughters of america. Thank you for reading.

    Like

  19. Jeremy Couch says:

    Ok so let me make this simple we are all brothers and sisters . We fight with each others just like at home but you see when we get around other branches we turn on them and when we are over seas we cover their 6 as well. I m ex army when i was in korea i and a few marines mixed it up with some aussi boys. its what we do its a joke not a dick dont take it so hard. lol

    Like

  20. Jerry Doyle says:

    Look this article offends me. I was a supply ncoic in a combat arms unit and I took care of everybody that went through my supply room . I did 14 months in Iraq n went through the same shit with the infantry . So that word pog offends me as a supply sgt I shouldn’t have been able kick down doors or go through convoys but I did because I am A SOLDIER and nco first before anything. It’s funny how all you infantry cats talk down on us support but the reality is we all need each other in the army to accomplish the mission . Yeah you had a garbage supply but there are garbage soldiers everywhere. I’ve been fortunate enough to serve with some of the best heroes in the world man. So how bout we get along instead of bashing each other on FB . That’s what the army is about family and teamwork.

    Like

    • psessum says:

      As an NCO and supply guy the term “attention to detail” means a lot to you. I would like to point out the end of the article where it says, “Grunts should treat all POGs that do their job with respect. A soldier is not less because he is in an easier job. There is nothing wrong with having an air conditioned office in a combat zone rather than running missions all day.”

      I would also encourage you to check out the follow up piece POG is a Mentality not an MOS.

      The purpose of the original piece was to explain one aspect of the military from a particular point of view. And it is explained in broad strokes. If you would like to lend your own voice to the website, I welcome you to email thedogtagchronicles@gmail.com and you can submit your own experiences and perspectives.

      Like

  21. Matthew says:

    I was a comm guy in the Marine Corps. For 8 years doing 5 combat deployments with both the infantry and support units. I lost friends that were both support and infantry. Then here are all of you winning like a bunch of bitches about who’s job is more important and about stupid names. For the non – infantry guys, quit bitching about a stupid acronyms and support these guys not only because it’s your fucking job and your getting paid to do it but because those are your brothers and sister! For you infantry guys, the world doesn’t revolve around you and everyone has issues at times so sit down, shut the fuck up, advise them of the issue and let them do their job. Bitching at them because someone else fucked your shit up is counter productive. When all this is said and done remember that our brothers and sisters that didn’t make it back. Do you really think that their parents, husband/wives, brothers/sisters, sons/daughters and friends give a shit about what their job was? Grow the fuck up, all of you! Quit whining about “status,” Do your fucking job, support each other and bring as many people home as possible!

    Like

  22. Jacob says:

    The idea of “POGs” just comes from an US vs THEM hatred that is always created whenever two entities exist.

    I was an MP in Kandahar, I was involved in multiple dismounted firefights, and when we got a chance to go to the airfield once a month for resupply we’d be harassed about PT belts by other MPs. It is a reality that MOS has nothing to do with how you are, it’s truely w mentality.

    When people call me a POG, I don’t give a crap because I k ow what I did and I know what my other MP Brothers have died for. The same thing every other American overseas has died for; freedom for our fellow man.

    And what is more honorable than that?

    Like

  23. joe says:

    I read this article and made a comment a long time ago and then forgot about it for almost a year now. Now my memory has been refreshed from getting all these notification from work comments in my email. The article makes total sense if you read it and doesn’t disrespect anybody. Its the god honest truth. But Some of these comments on here are total BS. You go to war and have some your buddies killed only to get back and be judge by other vets that say cause you weren’t infantry that your time doesnt count. My guess is that 90% of these comments made by people hating on pogs are under the age of 25.

    Like

  24. miguel martinez says:

    I’m a 0311. I don’t think to rate to comment or argue if you’ve not served. If your a boot 03 you have done absolutely nothing and arnt any better than a pog. You can be from security forces or silent drill teem, come to the fleet as an nco and be a complete waist of space. No better than a pog. I haven’t done much. One afphgan deployment and one to Spain. I know my place though. I am proud of being a 03. I wouldn’t change my mos for anything.

    Like

  25. Hate Pog's says:

    I tend to laugh at these comments more and more. Those of you that say the “Infantry” need you seem to forget that all jobs rotate of Infantryman man’s. If you take us out of the ARMY then there wouldn’t be no fucking ARMY simple as that. Most MOS are created to make the Infantryman’s life much much much more easier simple as that. We don’t call you guys POG’s to hurt your feelings (well kinda), we call you guys that because some of you think you’re HOT SHIT… MP’s are fucking assholes and would forever be that worst fucking MOS to be in. A group of cocky little fucks that think they run shit. They are THE WORST POG’s of all in the ARMY.

    Like

    • joe says:

      Sure because only grunts know how to fix things. Tell us how it’ll work out for you when you go up against a sizable army that is mechanized and organized and you don’t have the backup that you have no. Wonder how that’s going to work out for you?

      Like

      • jeremy VonLanken says:

        It will work just fine. We will rip off the heads of our enemy and crush their comrades with their bloody skulls. We will fight until the death. You will not find a more determined force in the world. We have secured this nation for over 200 years and have no reason to back down as the big daddy of freedom. We may be called the queen of battle but your wives and mothers call is big papa when we are dripping the dick.

        Like

  26. Joe says:

    It seems to be a ground pounder ego thing. We don’t see other MOS’s on here or wherever talking shit like some do on here about other MOS’s. As a 88m I was on convoys all the time. All this shit like mk 19’s and 50 cal that some think are only used by grunts is bs. Plenty of times we have been ambushed and had to return fire. Again I will say that I’m not saying we are as hardcore as the grunts in anyway. Grunts are soldiers but are a different kind with a different mission. We had total shit bags in our unit just like anywhere else. But we did our part and some didn’t return back in on piece. Was it as much as the grunts suffered? Hell no! But we were soldiers and if you say we were not because we were not grunts then too bad. Another thing I noticed when on the state side that once in awhile a grunt will re class to a support MOS and its all good. We have learned a lot from those guys when they switch over.

    Like

    • T says:

      Well, it is an ego thing. And it is earned. Everyone can have an ego if they know they do their job correctly. I was an 11B in Kunar Province Afghaniland, and believe me, I have my combat experience. My GT was 128 and in my platoon alone there were 3 people with GTs of over 130. I dont want to hear the “dumb grunt” shit anymore. It takes a really smart person to learn all the battle drills, acronyms for everything, how to PMCS a MATV, (sometimes do maintenance on them), write 5 paragraph OP orders, and eventually counsel and take care of your soldiers the same way finance or any other MOS does. Grunts have stuff to worry about and study the same as any MOS, if not more than most. But here is the kicker: A cook does not have to worry about not getting to call his wife while they are away unless a mortar attack happens. A MP, while “Combat Arms,” does not have to worry about taking a 80 pound ruck up a 1,500 meter mountain and setting up a 10 day OP. A 88M does not have to worry about dismounting after they get hit, and if they do, they know that there is an Infantry QRF waiting eagerly in the dark nearby. I will not talk about 13F because we had some kick as FOs and 68W (medics) with us. I gave my medic my CIB when I earned it.
      This brings me to my next point: When respect is earned from an Infantrymen, it is given. The medics in my company were treated like royalty. They saved lives of my friends and put their selves in harms way to save others. 13Fs have got us out of sticky situations. But not once did a cook help me. I ate MREs for almost 2 months because the road to get to our COP was too dangerous for the 88Ms and our supply company to bring us food or mail. Not once did a MP save me while they slept in the towers when they were supposed to be on guard, or they complained because they went on a two hour mission across the street in trucks and they were too tired to pull ECP guard. POGS complain about shit that Grunts do, and dont think twice about doing. Back in garrison, working on a Saturday happens at least twice a month. We never get off at 5 ANYDAY. There is no scheduled “lunch” hours. PT isnt optional. We stay in the field overnight very often, sometimes 4 or 5 nights a week. POGs dont know that struggle.
      To summarize, I dont look down on POGs. I look down on POGs who say they can do my job, and havent walked 10 miles with my ruck sack on. Its not that you cant be Infantry, its that you won’t be Infantry.

      Like

      • Joe says:

        I don’t look down on grunts either. I actually wanted that MOS when I first joined the Army but shit happened and they gave me something else. All I was basically saying is that I don’t like hearing people trash talking other MOS’s if it was never warranted. If someone looked down on you and started talking shit first I understand that. I recognize that grunts have a way more dangerous job than the others do but some people make it their sole mission to go generalizing all other jobs in the military as all shitbags. Yeah I agree that you have the right to brag about what you earned and trash talking others in humor is all good but like you mentioned there is a POG mentality everywhere and its the pog’s mentality that deserves the trash talking.

        Like

  27. JayJay says:

    I’m not gonna lie… If u put a written test in front of me then yes, I’ll qualify as a “dumb grunt” n I don’t care, I’m not book smart n have no problem admitting it, bc I know it’s a personal weakness. Now put me in Iraq with a mission to accomplish that involves anything but a written test n I can garentee I will accomplish that mission or die trying. Every individual soldier has strengths and weaknesses, n if u think u don’t n that your perfect, then that arrogance will get you or even worse, your buddy killed. I could go on n on about what I did n try n put myself on a pedestal, but in reality all I did was my job n don’t need to prove a f***ing thing to a POG… Or compare “war stories” with other soldiers who have been in combat. BUT I will say this, I unfortunately have to spend a lot of my time on an everyday basis at the VA hospital n have been since 07′ and the “story tellers” (your not fooling anyone who’s actually done it btw) are jus about always POG’s… How do I know? Bc, your telling me BS before I realized u were standing there, like I asked u or give a f**k. Also, to all you who do think your better than a “dumb grunt” answer this… Why is it that the scum that lie about there service, ALWAYS lie bout being in the infantry? I’ve NEVER sat in a VA hospital minding my business, and have a vet walk up to me n tell me they were army admin, a cook, mechanic, etc… Why? I don’t know but if u served (unlike most Americans) n DID YOUR JOB, no matter what ur MOS was, be proud of that. NOBODY likes a poser and trust me, u might be fooling ur parents but u can’t fool a Grunt, jus like we couldn’t fool a cook, mechanic, etc…

    Like

  28. joe says:

    That’s an awesome sto that’s the attitude everyone should have. Do your job and be cool with it. Don’t try to pose. I just get irritated with people on here picking fights with people that are not infantry and trying to discredit them for doing their job. That’s all. My only complaint. Never look down on grants and never will. I respect you for what they do. I just don’t like being disrespected for no reason.

    Like

  29. Brandon says:

    For all of the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines who come on here and cuss and belittle each other please go back to shoving your own head in the sand. Myself I was never in a combat Arms MOS, in the Marines I worked on the jet engines that went into the Huey and Cobra helicopter systems. It was my job to insure that the helicopters took off and God willing came back with no problems. In the Army National Guard I was a truck driver, you call we haul. I was deployed only twice to a combat zone and both times all of my Brothers and Sisters all came home alive despite the constant efforts of the terrorists. I must say that I have alot of friends on both sides of this argument, and I have a great respect for any man or woman who is willing to put their name on the line and enlist into the military. I know alot smart men and women and alot of one’s a few rounds shy of a full mag, on both sides of the argument. In this day and age of warfare anyone and everyone wearing a uniform of the military can be placed on the “front line” and in harms way. So yes everyone learns to some degree the same techniques utilized by the combat arms MOS’s. In Iraq ( with the National Guard) I can only remember two missions that we had escort services provided to us. The rest of the time we pulled our own convoy security by any means necessary. Some of us were lucky enough to have all of the proper gear for gun mounts, but most of it was just stuff we could rig up ourselves. A lot of my time was spent sitting on top of a PLS behind my M2 50 Cal machine gun, riding BFT (Big Frigging Target). We had a few fire fights and a few IED’s. I remember having to live out of that same PLS because we may not see base camp for a month or more. Showers were almost none existent unless you got lucky and a unit took pity on you and allowed you to use theirs. Like I said I was not a grunt, but still took my job seriously ensuring all of my Brothers and Sisters made it to our next stop alive, no matter the cost. I also made sure to deliver all of the goods needed to make missions and a few comforts possible. The second tour I served as a guard at an Iraqi detention facility, where I was face to face with the same people Infantry captured because of possible crimes against allied forces. Anyway to my point I love all of my Brothers and Sisters who served no matter of branch or MOS, I truly believe that if we all tried to do the same the military would be a great deal better for it.

    Like

  30. kehanu says:

    3 years in ..11b..1 combat tour Afghanistan.
    I don’t hate all pogs ..I’ve met and worked alot with pogs during my tour ..Our mechanics fucking love em man , always in the motor pool busting their ass’ s fixing out trucks after yet another ied encounter..(deadlined 21 vics, cuz of ieds)
    they sometimes came out to help us recover the remains of our vics, our 68W love you docs, yall take care of us all the time..Our FO droppings willy P on fucking haji goat fuckers man..to our helo pilots watching over us ..we appreciate yall..
    I respect certain pog mos’ s ..not all.. cuz they have tasted a version of the term “Suck” it’s other mos’ s that don’t do shit in garrison or downrange. .i.e. laundry specialist ..they don’t do shit in garrison ..and downrange we have contracts with company that handle laundry services ..or cooks down range are on vacation ..shits me thing we hire local nationals do that..

    And you have a grunt or one of the other mos i mentioned have spent the last few months running missions , getting shot at/blown up walk by and some laundry specialist E-5 type with a spiffy clean uniform(sat on kaf for 8 months) yells at you about your uniform being dirty when it actuality that’s your best pair ..what’s does a grunt wanna do !? All we see is red!!! And you fight the urge to tear the mother fuckers face apart..
    it is a mentality yes …
    I respect pogs that directly work with me.and my boys

    Like

  31. jayjay101st says:

    @kehanu… Good point! Even though I never had issues with any NCO (prob bc I was one) about being out of uniform. However we had issues with plenty of the POG officers about not shaving, hair cuts, etc jus bc we would run to eat real food after 7-21 day missions before cleaning up. I might have grown out of my hate for POG’s by growing up…. But I will NEVER stop hating or respect any officer below the rank of Major.. I really believe the majority of hate stems from the officers, they might have a college degree n think they deserve and also demand respect from any enlisted soldier and don’t.. They don’t even try to earn it. Jus my opinion.

    Like

  32. sam says:

    My grandfather served and so did my father. Now I am too. Both of them were grunts. I’m a pog. I was raised with the idea that the military was the military. Infantry has it harder. They do. But they signed for it. I knew I couldn’t and if I could I wouldn’t. You do your damn job because the less people have to worry about the better they perform. Infantry doesn’t get paid enough to do the things they do. None of us get paid to put up with the attitude we give EACH OTHER. You’ll never understand if you can’t think past yourself. That’s why you put your battles before you because if you signed up for yourself? You messed up from the beginning. I’m just a cook. I’m not special. Infantry can cook their own food but it’d be easier if the thought of what they were going to eat wasn’t on their mind in the few moments of peace they get.

    Like

    • Eric says:

      Don’t say “just a cook” man because a good cook that cares is worth their weight in gold. One of my fondest memories is of a mess sgt we had in Somalia. He would go the extra mile for us. For example one night T-rat chicken was on the menu. Now 90% of Army cooks would have just warmed the cans and plopped it on a tray and here you go. Not this guy. He took it out of the can washed that nasty stuff they call gravy off and BBqed it. wasn’t great but still was a lot better that out of that can. He did little stuff like that all the time and I don’t think there was anyone in the company that wouldn’t do him a favor if he asked. On the other hand a bad cook just makes a miserable situation even more miserable. Really with a few exceptions if it wasn’t for Tabasco i would have staved to death.
      sorry got off topic but the “just a cook” thing kind of set me off. Be proud of your MOS and what you do. I was an 88m and to this day I am still proud of what I did until I retired.

      Like

      • sam says:

        I want to be one of those dedicated come and i am proud. But why take the chance of getting into a fight with a bring because I’m just a pog. How do you show pride in something when you have been beaten down verbally by “peers”

        Like

  33. andrew W says:

    Modern wars do not need infantry as much as logistics / intel / supply / etc.

    Like

    • Lincoln Thompson says:

      Apparently you are one of those that you mentioned…Please tell me how many logistics supply or intel are actually kicking in doors, setting up OPs, doing snatch and grabs? They maybe pulling PSD and gate guard.. thats it. Sit back in your air conditioned room and let the Men do the work. Watch the “Hornets Nest, Restrepo, or the “Korengal,” and then get back to me.

      Like

    • 11B382B says:

      LOL who do you think gets intel? It’s not an MI guy. The recon platoon gets the intel and gives it to S2 dildo. The only intel I don’t get myself is from 11B’s out on mission or someone piloting a UAV.
      It’s not like supply is bringing shit to me on mission. I carry what I need and replace it when I come back so technically the only purpose behind supply is a security guard so nobody takes too much shit, I can sleep anywhere with 33% security, amazon is faster than S4. Don’t sell my job short so you can feel better about having a soft MOS wackenhut. I can do my job without support. Support has no job without 11B and 18 series.
      -Recon SL OUT!

      Like

      • Sorensen67 says:

        LMAO, no, recon doesn’t “get” intel. Sending up a SPOTREP from the field isn’t even on the same planet as writing an IIR from a clandestine source, listening in on people chatting to each other, or producing intelligence (not raw information) so that commanders can kill bad guys and save good guys. MI guys do all that stuff, not scouts. Scouts report on disposition. Big, big difference.

        Like

        • Mike says:

          LOL because a SPOTREP is the only thing I’m thinking of in a hide site. Ask your 25U’s to show you how to upload photos through the 152. Google recon manual FM 3-20.98. Control F and look for the push and pull method. Look for the three methods and tell me that a commander will rely on some busted soviet maps or mapquest to gain intel to send his men into an area to “kill the bad men.” S2 is categorizing the intel gathered from “clandestine sources” and “team guys.” 90% of the intel I’ve received in S2 briefs was lost in translation or sat on too long and is bad or outdated. I confirm it’s bad and my men recon the OBJ and report the disposition, composition, strength, capabilities, take pictures, survey the site and provide over-watch for the real heroes to come in and conduct raids to extract said “bad guys.” It’s not like you’re bugging an OBJ and sitting in a surveillance van. You’re job is important don’t get me wrong, but don’t try to church it up dirt. You have no job if there’s no boots on ground.

          Like

  34. Jason says:

    “All the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters. Every single man in the army plays a vital role. So don’t ever let up. Don’t ever think that your job is unimportant. What if every truck driver decided that he didn’t like the whine of the shells and turned yellow and jumped headlong into a ditch? That cowardly bastard could say to himself, ‘Hell, they won’t miss me, just one man in thousands.’ What if every man said that? Where in the hell would we be then? No, thank God, Americans don’t say that. Every man does his job. Every man is important. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns, the quartermaster is needed to bring up the food and clothes for us because where we are going there isn’t a hell of a lot to steal. Every last damn man in the mess hall, even the one who boils the water to keep us from getting the GI shits, has a job to do”.January 1944, Lieutenant General George S. Patton.

    Like

  35. 11B382B says:

    I’ll sum it all up. 11B job description is to close with, engage and destroy the enemy. It takes a special person to want that job much less to confidently do it. Less than 1% of military personnel have a combat job. If you have a problem with being a POG please reclass and join the ranks. Otherwise stop bitching. Nobody really cares until they overhear you telling warstories in a bar after deployment about how badass you are then the nameless grunt asks your MOS and you say proudly, “92Y.” The grunt then responds with, “WTF is a 92Y?”

    Like

  36. CH15D says:

    POGs don’t have to give 100% every day? Try being a rotary wing mechanic and try again, asshole.

    Like

  37. Dave says:

    POG’s are awesome. it’s shitheads that leave the military that give POG (and INF) a bad name. everyone has a damn job to do. do it, and shut up.

    Like

    • If people never left the military, loudmouth assholes like you would never get promoted. Because the people smart enough to do their part and bounce, would’ve always been ahead of you and would’ve always destroyed your chance to get promoted by taking up all the NCO slots, POG. You’re the kind of douche that hears some other loudmouth asshole that outranks you yell something, so you turn around and yell that same shit to everyone else so you can suckle that ranking dick. If you’re not smart enough to not want to spend your entire life being treated like a child? Don’t hate the player because you’re losing the game, chump!
      For all of the pogs talking about how you did patrols and “grunt stuff”. Did it ever occur to you that the Infantry was another hundred miles out, busy with much more important shit? So a few fobbits had to step in to actually do something on deployment besides play on the Internet in some pog’ed air conditioned tent? Big fucking woop!
      Our fourth day in Trashganistan a bunch of Infantrymen had to take a two hour truck driving “class” because the truck drivers (88-mikes, I believe) Refused to leave the wire, so we hd to transport out own shit to out shitty little FOB out in the middle of your mother’s ass, or some other such hellhole.
      If you POGs only new how many extra fucking classes the Infantry had/has to take to learn to do all yall mother fuckers jobs (Because you bitches refuse to, or are just too incompetent to) you might start to get an idea of why the Infantry has no respect for most (not all) POGs. In two hours to two weeks, we can be taught most of the duties of a great deal of the MOSs. So yeah, suck it. Suck that big green dick with a blue chord tied around it like it your fucking birthday present, fuckface!
      I joined the Infantry a few days after 911. I never planned on making it a career. I joined to serve, I hated POGs, I went to combat, went home, got back to my life… Still hates POGS.
      When people ask me what I did in the Army I say,
      “Infantry. What else is there?”

      NOTE:
      Not all POGS are worthless garbage. One easy way to tell who is worth a fuck or not is this. If this article/blog/whatever, or my response (and/or if any Infantry shit talking bullshit, in general) offends you… You’re likely the worthless type of POG, and the truth is just stinging you a bit. Is okay, it’s okay. Just ask your ask a Medic (or politically correct “Coreperson” for you jarheads) for some butthurt creme and take a selfie next to a 50. cal or something, and everything will be alright.

      Like

  38. ImmaPOG says:

    ImmaPOG and I agree with this post. Everyone has their job to do and you gotta do it right. I was a 91B (wheeled vehicle mechanic). I wanted infantry at first, but it wasnt open and they didnt tell me I could wait. Anyways, I enjoyed talking to the grunts when they brought vehicles. Good ol boys. Appreciated the time they took to hang around and chat when they werent patrolling. I took care of their vehicles and they took care of us. Granted I could take care of myself if it called for it which only happened almost 1 time when I was a Gaurdian Angel for Higher Ups. That was due to the fact ANA just killed my best friend back at my old base and I was on another on a ANA FoB. A truck pulled up and I almost turned that bitch to swiss cheese until the terp stopped me, I guess he knew him. Honestly, the guy pulled up quick, stopped quick and I thought Vbied and was going to take chances with a second triggerman. Closest I came to killing someone. I enjoyed it though. Chinoocks, black hawks were fun to ride in, even though I waited to get hit by a recoilless but thank God it didnt happen. ANYWAYS, in the end I was a FoB hopper and got to meet Navy Seals and it was dope, they even brought back a dead dog on a homemade up armored dune buggy lmao because they didnt find no towel heads lmao. Great times. Moral of the story, everyone goes through different things but just wor together and stfu because we do what we gotta do and I respect the ones going out on the regular.

    ~Ahmy Stwong~

    Like

  39. Sorensen67 says:

    This is a cute chest thumping article, but seriously, screw infantry. When they’re not deployed, hiking, or cleaning weapons at the armory all day, they’re in garrison being treated like general population at a prison (can’t go off base without 3 accomplices, can’t have ‘x’ amount of beer/liquor in your room, you must be here at this time so you can stare at the grass for 4 hours, etc etc). Even if you get the chance to see combat, odds are it will be potshots at you from a distance, you’ll return fire at nothing, and that’s all you’ll see for an hour of your whole enlistment. Then you’ll get a combat action award, get out of the service because you’re tired of being treated like a child, then spend years on Facebook talking about how you’re a hardcore warrior and that POGs should feel fortunate to smell your farts even though you’re near homeless, not using your GI Bill, and working at Walmart because nobody cares that you were infantry.

    Also, the “infantry and everybody else” mentality is retarded. If you compare ANY specific occupational field to the rest of the military, then it will also come out as 10% or less. Promotions in the infantry are slow because they’re a dime a dozen. The service doesn’t need as many chiefs as they do Indians for unskilled labor. There are a lot of jobs in the military that have longer training pipelines and a higher attrition rate than the infantry (explosive ordnance disposal, intelligence, recon/scouts, nuclear techs, etc). They don’t go through a whopping 4 week MOS producing course with a 97% pass rate. “Training is constant!” the infantry says. Yep, that’s how it is with all jobs in the military. And guess what? Some non-infantry also have to go “outside the wire” while deployed to hazardous environments where they could be killed while doing their jobs. Go ahead, call those guys POGs and tell them they have easy jobs because they don’t get combat medals. At least they’ll leave the service with not only stories but actual skills employers would be interested in outside of “snapping necks and cashing checks.”

    Like

  40. Cautious says:

    Man, what a bunch of bullshit. I am a MARINE veteran (no such thing as an EX-Marine. I’ve been on USMC websites and I thought they were the only shit heads but it looks like you doggies are too. Fucking Marine Grunts. Same shit. Everybody is worthless but them. Well I have news for you. My MOS was 3000 Supply Man. Someone in this conversation said if it wasn’t for the cooks, yada, yada, yada. if it wasn’t for the supply man who would get you your ammunition and so on and so on. Everybody wants to say, when they are asked what they did in the military, I was a Grunt. Why? I was a Supply Man, yes. That’s not the MOS I chose. They gave it to me. Someone has to different jobs in the military. I served in Vietnam in 1965 during the EARLY stages of the Nam War. I went there as a Supply Man. Guess what! I never saw a pencil, paper, supply tent or any of that shit. Marines say, all Marines are “riflemen” first. I suppose a “rifleman” is not associated with the infantry in your world. I spend all my time in the shit because at that time, there were very few “grunts” in country and they not only NEEDED support, the WANTED it. I’m not talking about the support you guys are talking about. But in that vein, what if you came back to the CP after being out in the bush for two weeks and there was no chow for you to eat except a few crackers and cheese. You need to thank the cooks that kept you alive and the supply men who kept you armed. I’m talking about the early NAM days. Even then, when the “grunts’ in the bush were down and out and had no supplies, it was the supply company who humped into the bush to bring the grunts what they needed. The grunts didn’t come back to get it. I give all you grunts all the glory and acknowledgement you so badly need and want. But never forget, WE are all brothers. Just like I joke sometimes with my Army friends, but we are ALL BROTHERS IN ARMS and we all put our lives on the line. Sometimes just being there can get you killed. A cook or a truck driver or a supply man has no guarantees he will survive, especially in a war like Vietnam or even TWOT! Don’t go criticizing and defaming anyone who is not a grunt until you have lived in his shoes. Many supply men, cooks, and what you call POGS were killed in the Vietnam War and I would pretty much guess in TWOT. I guarantee you, I’d rather have been doing supply work for the 13 months I spent in Nam but I had no choice. You were needed here, that’s where you were sent. You were needed there, then that’s where you were sent. You did what you were told. Someone said, I don’t hate the POG’S but I hate it when they try to put themselves off as infantrymen when they didn’t have an infantry MOS. Infantry MOS, smesh, barf. Makes no difference. In NAM, many of us felt the fear and the pain and suffering the grunts did. Many died stepping into booby traps similar and sometimes even worse than IED’s because many of the booby traps in NAM were set up to make you writhe in pain for days before you died. It’s exactly the same I see in the Army as in the Corps. We’re grunts. We deserve all the respect. I wonder how thing would turn out if ONLY grunt MOS’s were sent into war and no support people were sent at all. I wonder how long you would survive. Like I said, if I had been given an 0300 MOS, then I would have lived with it and would have performed my duties as best I could. I wanted to fight because that’s what Marines do. I thought I wouldn’t have to because I was in supply and deep down I thought, whew!, I’m not going to get wounded or even killed. Well guess again. Wounded twice while out in the boonies with the grunts. When the infantry units were short handed, guess who they came to get to make up a squad or a company, ANY FUCKING MARINE THEY COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON AND “TELL” THEM, guess where you are going today!!! This is all a bunch of bullshit. People see a man in uniform in the states and they automatically think that’s what he did, he fought the enemy. That is their mentality. They don’t know or understand the organizational structure of the military. I was called a “pogie bait” Marine many times (same as you POG). Laugh it off. It was strictly because those that called me that knew my MOS was supply. Well I guarantee you, I didn’t sit around NAM in early 1965 in a tent with a cot and eat candy all day and I have the scars to prove it. We’re all supposed to be brothers. I admire grunts because they HAVE to spend all their days in the field. But don’t criticize any other patriot that volunteered to serve his country just because the Army only needs so many grunts just like the Corps only needs so many. You get what THEY give you, no more, no less. And you do what they tell you and no questions asked. I’ve been on TWS (Marines Together We Served) and I left because I was tired of all the bullshit, particularly “grunts” putting down everyone else that served and their calling them names one wouldn’t call a rabid dog in their neighborhood. WE ALL SERVED. WE ARE ALL PATRIOTS. And I would do it again if they would let me. I’m ready to go right now and I am 70 years old. I don’t need to have gone through advanced infantry school. I have enough savvy and desire to live that I can kill the enemy just as dead as any grunt. oo-rah!

    Like

  41. Cautious says:

    Infantry has been talking this shit since the beginning of the existence of the military. I’m 70 years old right now and might have a problem doing so but ten, just ten years ago when I was 60, I would have and could have humped the hills of Pendleton alongside the grunts any day. You know what the military did for me, it made me realize that I can do anything when some Sgt. was threatening to break my face if I didn’t do what he told me to. Back in the old days in the Corps, A corporal was Jesus Christ himself and a Sergeant was GOD! If he said shoot yourself in the leg, I would have done it. I’m much smarter than that now. PAIN is just evil leaving your body!

    Like

  42. Jack says:

    I was in the Reserves so I didn’t really hear any of the back and forth shit talking between grunts and pogs. I know what its all about mainly from seeing it online from sites like this and especially Facebook. And from some of my reserve buddies who used to be active duty as infantry. Honestly really I dont give 2 shits because I don’t have an ego about my time in for what I did. Although I’m proud of what I did I don’t need to hear this your not a ‘real’ soldier crap. Its like an ER trauma nurse telling a regular floor nurse they don’t really count as a nurse because their not on the ‘front lines’ so to speak. We all get it………….11B engaged the enemy and the pogs supported them. No argument with that so move on with it. If I can guess a lot of the chest thumpers on here are civilians now so that speaks volumes in of itself. Oh well I guess its just something that the active duties guys will bitch about between each other till the end of time.

    Like

  43. phil says:

    I was a pog radio operator with MWCS-38 during the invasion in 2003, but guess what, we weren’t at a FOB, we didn’t spend all our time at a fucking Burger King, and we didn’t have grunts protecting us. We were at a 30 man SHF retransmission site. Providing our own security, performing our own patrols, searching vehicles and military aged males. Did we kick down doors? No. Did we take the fight to the enemy? No. Grunts did that shit. Does that bother me? No. That wasn’t my job. What bothers me are the pogs who think they’re grunts, and grunts who lump all pogs together as REMF pieces of shit who do nothing but watch netflix or youtube all day. Grunts take the brunt of enemy fire, but POGs take fire too. I’ve personally known grunts and pogs who have been KIA. We need each other. No way a grunt is going to just walk in and operate a TRC-170 and no way a pog is going to just run in and start kicking doors down, but both could do each other’s job given enough time to learn how. Grunts and Pogs are nothing more than idiot 18-19 year olds who don’t know a goddam thing when they join. Its through training and experience that they become who they end up being when they leave the service.

    Like

  44. Sonny says:

    So, 90% of the military is “useless”? Only a brainless, knuckle-dragging grunt would believe that the world revolves around their .22 rifle. I don’t even see how anyone can be that ignorant of how a military works. Grunts barely have the brain power to wipe their own a$$es.

    Like

    • John says:

      I had a really long write up in response to Sonny’s opinion. I sat back, read it, re-read it, and realized that I was angry and my comment deeply reflected that so I deleted it. I am still full of hate and discontent but I see no reason to fuel a fire. Sonny..you are wrong ….simply put. If you can not see this then I advise you to seek help…professional help. For those of you who got their shit together and did your job no matter what it was I thank you. For those of you who are too ignorant to do so…well “shame on you”. Arguing will solve nothing here. Remember those who served and served well but always honor the fallen. Semper Fi

      Like

    • Mike says:

      So by degrading my MOS to justify your self worth to a tool that shares my MOS makes you any better than the perpetrator in the first place? Who uses .22? In the end of the day I support all MOS because I do a job that relies heavily on SUPPORT to accomplish my mission. The support side of the Army has lost the reality that without grunts on the ground you have no job. Shut up and enjoy the path you chose. If you need more self worth then reclass. POG is the life you chose, be happy with it or call yourself a grunt.

      11B38B4

      Like

  45. mike says:

    Nobody fucks with a hellfire missile. seriously doubt any grunt with balls to talk shit could look me in the eye and say thier ass wasn’t saved by some CAS at some point. I’ll keep my POG ass wrenching on my apache for you either way.

    Like

  46. Jim says:

    I am a MP and went on over 400 missions in 9 Months (outside the wire) and guess who was attached to our PSD team Infantry they were working for us hmmmm ….

    Like

  47. Chris Bedigian says:

    I know I’m pretty late to this article, but what do grunts think of POGs like military doctors and surgeons that go overseas but stay on the base and don’t see actual combat. (Trying to make it clear I mean MD doctor or surgeon not combat medic)

    Like

  48. Fuckemall says:

    I’m motor t. Am I cool or no? I’ll put a/c in your armored humvees and 7-tons?

    Like

  49. Chief says:

    This is the most pathetic, shameful article and responses I have read in a while. Every year we are pulled together more as one team and one joint fighting force and someone really needed to put something as stupid as POG in place? We all make a commitment to our country, and go where we are needed the most. You all sound like a bunch of whiny schoolgirls fighting for prom queen. Damn embarrassing.

    Like

  50. Elledge, David A. says:

    Was drafted in 68. Mos 11B. Ft. Polk, Tigerland. Served as 11B in Vietnam. C.I.B. earned. After Nam, “redrafted”
    you might say into the M.P.’s via OJT, due to M.P. shortages. Always tried to give a troop wearing a C.I.B. a little slack. Called more 1Sgts. or Platoon Sgts. to come get a troop who over indulged, than I locked up.
    Most thanked me.
    Have seen both sides.

    Like

  51. psessum says:

    I am all for an exchange of ideas and as a former grunt I can tolerate colorful language. But if your argument is all name calling and “kill yourself” then you lose the privilege of posting here. The First Amendment is a right, and if you wore dogtags you earned it> You have the right to say what you want but I have no requirement to post it. Grow up or get out. Just because people think we are dumb grunts doesn’t mean we have to act like it.

    Like

  52. Chief says:

    Really? Because this whole article is full of comments with name calling, very little intelligence, and complete disrespect to fellow soldiers. Regardless of MOS, we take the same oath and serve under the same flag. Discussions like this are the exact reason we constantly get sexual harassment and equal opportunity training jammed down our throats when we could be doing a million more productive things.

    Like

  53. Mike says:

    PLM……….Pog Lives Matter……..Should riot, loot and harm your own communities to get your point across.

    Like

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